Barry in Wyoming

Updated 7/15/03 7 am MDT

This thread is dedicated to information about engine failures that Honda is fixing by short block replacements (or short block PLUS other parts replacements).

To save people from scrolling down, in case this becomes long, I'll update this initial post as needed.

I need everyone's help!!! Does anyone know of a catastrophic engine failure requiring short block replacement in an '03 or late model '02 S2000? So far, all the cars listed in the 36 are '00, and '01 cars. After engine # 1025386 (summer, 2002), there was a change in oil jet bolts. I wonder if it will affect the suspected oil starvation problem. bmw 2/6/03 Adenend

I'll categorize the replacements by "presenting symptom" based on my vast car experience as a pediatrician. So far, I've identified two presenting symptoms (1) "tap tap tap valve noise like sounds." or (2) coolant leaking from the block.

To make it onto "the list," Honda has to decide to do a short block replacement, at a minimum.

Anyone who wants to see what we mean by #4 cylinder failure, look at Jason Saini's thread. The picture at the top of this post was originally posted there by Jason. It is one of the most interesting threads on this board, in my opinion. Here it is:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ght=engine+pics


Summary 41 "tap tap tap" replacements; (or catastrophic failures) 4 "porous block replacements". 1 porous head replacement. 46 total. There are four more failures suspicious for an oil starvation problem as of 30 January 03 discussed below

almost all replacements done under warranty or one time courtesy repair at no cost to owner.

dhess in Brisbane, Australia is taking Honda Australia to court for not covering his repair.

toofast4u is taking American Honda Motors to court for not covering his engine replacement. He had #4 cylinder scoring.

loves_my_s2k has not yet determined whether AHM will consider this owner abuse or warranty item.

The highest mileage at cylinder/piston failure was 76,000 miles (JoeS2K in Houston) and the lowest is mine at 650 miles.

Disclaimer: This thread is meant to track information, not to decide the quality or lack of quality of the F20C. We're looking at problems, but all manufacturers have a few problems and the overwhelming majority of F20C owners have never had any problem. If you read this list and decide, "Oh, the S2000 is no good because some engines fail." then you're obligated to find yourself a car which never has any engine problems and I think those only exist in car heaven.

"tap tap tap" or other short block catastrophic failures

(1) Zoinks, VIN#7115 MY2000. Failed 10/00, odometer 7450. tapping sound led to short block replacement. "bearing failed" as diagnosis.

(2) s2klisa. VIN#8953 MY2000 Built 06/00 Delivered 09/00 Failed 11/00 two days before Thanksgiving. 3,200 miles at failure. Confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound from very beginning. #4 cylinder wrist pin failed, Honda told Lisa. Honda replaced Lisa's S2000 with a new MY2001.http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=8361

(3) Jason Saini, VIN#? MY2001 Delivered 11/00 Failed 12/00 at 2,200 miles. confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.

(4) Dipstick.(Mike) VIN#8777, MY2000. Purchased 09/00. Failed during track event in 12/00. 6,000 miles. Engine check did come on. Made clackety-clackety and froze completely. Only 2 qts oil. ?diagnosis other than burned engine. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...p?threadid=4823

(5) Barry Wohl, VIN#JHMAP11491T000052.MY2001. Delivered 11/4/00. Failed 1/4/01 650 miles at failure. never low on oil. confirmed #4 piston/cylinder failure. had tapping sound.

(6) AutoxEx, 2,800 miles at failure MY2001 VIN#1234. Had tapping sound and then made a loud noise and then failed. Failed 2/01. Diagnosis vague but likely piston/cylinder failure.

(7) kizneda, MY2001.JHMAP114X1T000044 Delivered 11/00
Failed 2/01. 2,900 miles at failure. #4 cylinder not confirmed. made tapping sound like #4 cylinder failures did. Honda blamed low oil.

(8) Rowland in New Hampshire MY2000 #8275 6,651 miles at failure. Manufactured 6/00. Delivered 08/00 Failed 2/01. confirmed #4 cylinder. was not low on oil. had tapping sound. Has low oil problem after short block repair.
As of 27 March 01, oil usage has improved. Currently participating in Oil Usage Test with AHM. Should conclude test 3/30/01.

(9) Elund, VIN#? MY2001. Delivered? Failed 2/01. 2,000 miles at failure. getting new short block. NOT confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound. Oil was down 4 quarts at diagnosis. Oil light never came on. Honda blamed low oil.

(10) cde. Delivered 5/00. Failed 3/01. First had oil cap problem which led to dropping tranny to retreive oil cap. Never had low oil problems until tap tap tap developed at about 3,500 miles. Engine seized on way to dealer. Dealer is blaming "damaged oil filter" for causing low oil leading to engine seize. See http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=10086 AHM making sure car repaired, NOT AT OWNER'S EXPENSE. WTG AHM!

(11) chitowns2k. Manufactured 8/00 VIN#JHMAP1149T009084. (sic) Failed ?/01. 4,000 miles on the odometer. Had "knocking sound leading to "engine replacement." Originally thought to be valve noise but turned out to be scuffed #4 cylinder. Honda tried to blame low oil, but he was never low on oil.

(12) Stealthy a friend of s2klisa had a short block replacement due to #4 cylinder failure. s2klisa has the details. bmw 5/13/01

(13)legendr34. MY2001 2,300 km at engine failure. Failed May 11, 2001. Dealer diagnosed short block failure and will replace. Oil not low. Lives in L.A., California. Thread is here: http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...5182#post145182

(14) kooma in Toronto. 5,000 km on his MY2001. Problem developed about 4 August while pushing car hard. Was low on oil at time of diagnosis. VIN? Not confirmed #4 cylinder. see: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ighlight=engine

(15) ozzyiceman in Adelaine, S.A. Australia. Posted 13 August 2001 The first outside of North America reported on this board. 11,500 km (about 6,900 miles). #3 cylinder cracked piston head. VIN? not sure he had the tap tap tap and perhaps not same problem as rest of this thread. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ighlight=engine

(16) dhoward posted 8/15/01 MY2001. 5,000 miles. VIN?. tap-tap-tap leading to short block replacement. Oil was low at diagnosis but NOT LOW earlier in day. Full story here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ighlight=engine

(17) Fed. MY2001.Developed problem 3 February 2002. Developed a knocking sound. NOT low on oil at diagnosis. Found to have "washed out #1 and #4 cylinders" and bent valves. Got new short block and new head. ?VIN ?mileage. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ighlight=engine

(18) ICEMAN666. Bergen County, NJ. Failed 15 March 2002. MY2001. USAVIN#972. Failed at 14 months of age, 6,500 miles on odometer. Loud noise developed. Had car flat-bedded. Diagnosed as #4 cylinder failure. Not low on oil at diagnosis. Covered by AHM Warranty. Back in service 29 March 2002. See thread: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...=engine+failure Only 1/2 quart low on oil at failure.

(19) broken_S2000 Wilmington, DE. Failed 20 March 2002. 11,300 miles on MY2001. ?VIN. Purchased used at 7,000 miles. 4 quarts plus LOW on oil at diagnosis. AHM denying warranty claim as of 27 March 2002 because of owner negligence in not checking oil. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...6910#post616910

(20) Garry in Bowral, NSW, AU. failed 25 March 2002. MY2000 purchased 13 April 2000. 48,000 km. AU VIN#JHMAP1130YT004114. tap tap tap diagnosed as #4 cylinder. Only 1 quart of oil when diagnosed in spite of full oil at service several days before. No oil light. Honda Australia denying warranty claim. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ighlight=engine
YM2000. VIN JHMAP1130YT004114 it has about 48,000 Km on the clock. No hard Driving. No Track work. Purchased 13/04/2000.

(21) Leggy Blonde. 27 March 2002. MY2001. 5,000 miles. Warranty replacement. Hemel Hempstead, UK. Here's the link:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...7727#post617727

(22)S2K-Repentigny 3 April 2002. MY2001 VIN?. 31,450 km (19,200 mi) Montreal, Quebec. was not low on oil. Dealer asking for documentation of oil chnages at: 6000, 12000, 18000, 24000 km. Warranty coverage being disputed as of 6 April 02. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...&threadid=55094

(23) dhess, 8 August 02 MY? VIN? 27,000 miles. Brisbane, QLD, AU. got clanging noise at various rpms then blew engine.Main bearing and or #2 piston connecting rod https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=75007 and https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=78621 Stock except for exhaust. Oil checked regularly. Not known to be low. Initially Honda Australia denied warranty claim based on "engine abuse--over-revving" although never known to be overrevved.

(24) emc2 VIN? MY? Had 11,500 miles and intercooler mounted. "Regional manager said they know of the # 4 failures and gave them the go ahead" to replace the engine under warranty. Had tap tap tap and oil consumption. Poor compression in # 4. Engine not opened yet as of 16 Sept 02.
(25) bullit. Aliso Veijo, CA.Another confirmed #4 cylinder. Also cam shaft. 8/02 failure. Car new? VIN? mileage? Here's the thread: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=78762 Honda replacing short block AND head under warranty.

(26) Danny in Holland, Broken #1 connecting rod destroyed short block and head. Warranty replacement in Holland. Thread with pictures here https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...670#post1186670 . Low oil was mentioned as casue by dealer, but dealer backed away from that. Sept 02 thread. 31,000 km on car at time of failure.

(27 &28) DivineDesign had his first engine seize with piston dinintegration at 14,700 miles and got a short block replacement under warranty. Debris went everywhere. Then his second engine died with spark plug disintegration. As of 4 December 02 Honda has decided to replace the second engine under warranty. DevineDesire believes debris from the first engine caused the second failure. '00 S2000, 5000 miles on second engine at time of failure. Honda initially blamed damage on missed downshift whiich never occurred bit later offered warranty replacement. Santa Clara, CA.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...323#post1186323

(29) bullitt. Short block replacement Aliso Viego, CA.

(30) Rev9K, Vancouver, BC. Short block replacement.VIN JHMAP114X1T80052 an '01 delivered in November, 00. 27,000km at time of replacement, October, 02. Developed ticking sound.

(31) Ringwurm. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...50&pagenumber=1 November '02 failed connecting rod at 50,000 miles. #2 cylinder.

(32) Yiannis in Boston, MA. '01 with 8,000 miles failed October, 2002. First, he got the "tap, tap, tap" sound then #1 cylinder and piston rod failed. Had Speedcraft installed. Honda fixed the problem under warranty, and the mechanic "told me that this was the result of poor lubrication of the pistons. He explained that in Europe there was a TS B asking dealers to replace the oiling screws with ones that have 4 holes to increase the amount of oil that reaches the pistons..." Documented in Ringwurm's thread above.

(33) hondas2kguy. Frisco TX. #4 failed 10/01. Warranty repair by Honda. See post on this thread.

(34) toofast4u. Used '01 with 20K miles failed fall of 2002. One dealer said bent valves and one said oil starvation. Estimated out of warranty cost $15,000. Warranty claim denied based on low oil. toofast4u spent $4,500 on a rebuild. Lawsuit pending. San Diego. CA. U.S.A. Problem started with light ticking. Oil down 1.5 quarts. Full thread here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...170#post1278170 GREAT PICTURES of engine including #4 cylinder scoring in this thread.

(35) dcg03 MY2000 purchased February, 2000 and failed at 11,200 miles January 28, 2003. Classic #4 cylinder failure with frozen bearing also. Short block replacement under warranty. Excellent service as of 1/30/03. Oil was full and clean and recently changed by Honda dealer. Thread is here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...233#post1320233

(36) wblanch '01 VIN#2654, 2500 miles, 8 months old. Heard "knocking" and AHM diagnosed #4 cylinder scoring, replaced short block under warranty in 2001. wblanch sold car in early 2003. I was told about this 5 Feb 03. Lives in Connecticut.
Never low on oil, as far as I know now 6 Feb 03.

(37) KewlWhip 2/20/03 VIN? MY03 with 2,300 miles. 7 weeks old. Lost 4 quarts of oil. Short block replaced under warranty.Diagnosis: "the bearing caps backed off causing the bearing wear and unavoidable motor failure. The oil consumption was from blow by." This is the second failure of an engine with the updated oil jet bolts. su701's car below also had the updated oil jet bolts. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...560#post1392560

(38) JoeS2K in Houston failed 3/01/03 at 76,000 miles. His car is a MY2000 which he bought new in August, 2000. His car developed a "sledgehammer" like sound. Diagnosis was failed main bearing and #4 cylinder scoring. His oil was full at time of failure. He had a Honda Care Extended warranty which covered his short block replacement. Read the details here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...869#post1544869 .

(39)
medicalstudent wrote on 04-10-03 08:22AM in private mail:
"Just FYI since I don't know if my car's engine problem pertains to your thread. Mine was delivered 5/02 VIN#JHMAP11462T005632. Failed on 3/03 at 21,000 miles. Tapping noise occurred and within 2 minutes, a sudden power loss followed by a loud explosion. The car died leaving a long trail of coolant. No prior history of street racing/road-racing, no forced induction or engine modifications. Regular oil changes. Engine light and oil light never came on. Diagnosed as bent valves and #2 cylinder failure. Cause is unknown and the techs were astonished since they've never seen a #2 failure. Said I've created a "5th cylinder". The short block will be replaced, heads redone, all valves/pistons will be replaced, and still waiting after 3 weeks..." I don't know if there is further information in a thread. This is probably an '02 with the updated oil jet bolts.

(40) Porsche951 '01 "No symtoms whatsoever. ... They replaced the short block and head. Possibly #4 wall was weak to begin with? As far as oil level goes I just changed it 2 or 3 days prior to the incident.VIN#JHMAP11441T003781." his link to be posted here as soon as I find it AHM covered the repair under warranty.

(41) Airsport. Early '02 S2000 (pre-1025386 engine) failed in July, 2003 at 15,000 miles. #4 connecting rod broke. Cause yet undetermined, but he did not over-rev and he was not low on oil. He had a data tracker plugged into his OBDII so more info should follow. As of 7/15/03 AHM is considering this "over-rev" and not a warranty item. More information here: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...504#post1956504 .


Four more pending, but it isn't clear to me if they are from over-revving (which I have consistently left OUT of these threads) or something else. Owners are: fast-miami, eleki-SD-Calif. and su701. Three separate vehicles. Warranty claims being denied but it is still unclear from the threads on the board if these are oil
starvation, mechanical breakdown or over-revving as of 13 Jan 03 Here's a link to the thread discussing these three engine failures.: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...170#post1278170

I think it is very possible that the engines giving fast-miami, su701 and elike-SD-Calif. problems all have oil starvation problems rather than over-revving problems. There is a huge difference between missing a shift and missing a shift at high rpm and allowing the engine to be forced to 11,000 or 12,000 rpm.

fast-miami's car is only 3 months old. I don't know if it is an '02 or '03, but I'd love to know. 2,900 miles on odometer when engine stalled and check-engine light came on. I'd also love to know, if it is an '02, if the engine number is before or after 1025386. It might be the first with the new oil jet bolts to show major engine problems. In any case, he knows it wasn't over-revved, so it broke without owner abuse. Unless he let the engine run out of oil or unless he over-revved it to 12,000, AHM should fix it. It seems simple to me. At this time, AHM is saying it was over-revved, got bent valves, and is due to owner abuse.

su701 has told me in private mail some of the details of his car's failure. "su701
my engine had 4000 miles on it and on a long trip it slowly....started missing a little , then check engine light , then clunk, clunk , ect. ..." It also sounds typical of the engine dying after an oil starvation problem and not related to over-revving. It wasn't low on oil and besides, it only had 4000 miles on it. He had the oil changed 100 miles before the failure. His car is MY2002 VIN# JHMAP11422T007927 purchased in September, 2002. At first Honda denied that this is a warranty issue but after he got an attorney and the Better Business Bureau involved, Honda has agreed to buy back his car. He's getting a BMW. This car is the first engine failure with the updated oil jet bolts.


eleki-SD-Calif. VIN# JHMAP1148YT004328. elike-SD-Calif. bought her car new in January, 2000 with 12 miles on it and has owned it and driven it for 20,835 miles.. It just recently developed the dreaded ticking sound. The engine light came on.
"They ran leak down tests, here is what it said: 1st test #1-50%, #3-54%, #4-90% #2-20%. The 2nd test showed: #1-60%, #3-65%, #4-90%, #2-45%. They said they have to replace 8 intake valves and 8 exhaust valves and a head set. "
It wasn't low on oil and she didn't over-rev it. I don't understand why there is any doubt that her car should also be fixed under warranty. After she got the BBB to help mediate, Honda agreed to pay half of the repair costs. Her original estimate was $2,200 for the repair, but she got it repaired for $735 after mediation. She is going to sell and get a BMW.

loving_my_s2k, '01 Harrison Twp, MI. davey7337@aol.com VIN#JHMAP11401T009741. Mileage? Developed "tap tap tap" and check engine light (misfire code). Dealer first diagnosed "needs oil change" but that fixed nothing. As of 6 Feb 03, final diagnosis pending. Dealer has said "over-revving". We'll see. If this turns out to be bent valves rather than cylinder scoring, I'll move this out of the short block thread. Here's a thread describing situation. https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...539#post1336539




Here's the link to a longer thread about the failures.

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=7384

Here's the link to pictures of a scuffed #4 cylinder. Jason Saini's car. THANK YOU JASON!
http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=2673

"coolant leaking from block"
(1) AaronS2K's wife's S2000. http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...hp?threadid=428
(2) JMD Sydney Australia TWO porous block replacements, one in August, 2000 and one in January, 2001. Car was bought in August, 1999. http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=5820
(3) Aus2000. developed at 6,000 miles (10K in Oz) at routine maintenance. http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=5198
Removed from list.
"oil leaking into coolant"

(1) S2K_Spain. 2/27/01 http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...p?threadid=7985 This now looks to be NOT a short block replacement issue. S2K_Spain's dealer found a leak in the oil cooling circuit and is fixing that, not the short block.

As of 8/24/01 the following two possible #4 cylinder problems are being watched:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...&threadid=25361
Ilink 1,200 miles. oil not low. tap-tap-tap awaiting diagnosis. red/black MY2001 VIN#5125 AND s2kman 28,000 miles MY2000, oil never low. awaiting diagnosis

Barry in Wyoming

I'm moving this back to the top with cde's engine seizure.

Here's cde's thread.

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=10086

Barry




[Edited by Barry WY Silver/Black '01 on 03-27-2001 at 06:06 AM]

Bieg

Good work Barry.

Barry in Wyoming

Thanks, Rowland. I updated your entry above.

I am very curious as to whether cde's oil filter had anything to do with his engine tapping and subsequent engine seizure.

Barry

cde

I second that Rowland. This site is great.

Barry, thanks for the leg work. I'll definitely be using the data you collected, when I talk to AHM.

Chris

Barry in Wyoming

Back to the top this morning with the addition of some details on chitowns2k's #4 cylinder failure.

He's got info about it on this thread.

http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=10843

Mavic

Barry:
I don't think that my experience belongs in this thread. However, it may help other owners. About 2 weeks ago I was driving on a 2 lane highway. The slow driver in front of a long chain of cars decided that he/she is going as fast as anyone should go on the road. He refused to move from the fast lane. I did not want to high beam him. So I did the passive agressive thing by keeping the rev high. Once the road opened up, I revved to ~7500 RPM on third gear. When I was up shifting, once I passed the stubborn slow driver, I accidentally went into 2nd gear instead of 4th. I knew I made a terrible mistake because the engine revved passed 9K, and the car quickly slowed as if the brakes were applied. I quickly pressed the clutch. Unfortunately the damage has been done. At the exit ramp the engine had a rough idle. Sort of like a poorly maintained car from the 70's. The check engine light was on. The first Honda Dealer here in Westchester, NY refused to work on the car. I called American Honda for referral to another dealer. The experience with the second Honda dealer was very pleasant. The owner arranged for a loaner car, and kept me updated on the work being done. The problem apparently involved one of the valves on the 4th cylinder. The top of the valve was sheared off. The mechanic replaced the valve and the associated parts as well as the Vtec roller. The repair was covered by the warranty even though I told them what had happened. I saw the car while the mechanic was working on it. I have no reason to think that the interior of the 4th cylinder was involved. Now the car is driving like new. Though the mechanic feels that the VTEC roller was the culprit, I know that the damage was partly caused by driver error.
I learned couple of lessons from my mistake. First is to high beam the slower driver. Our headlights are plenty bright. 2nd, it does take more care to drive our car. Shifting at double the RPMs as other cars' redline means less tolerance for mistakes like mine.

Barry in Wyoming

Nice post Mavic. You got great treatment, over and above what anyone could reasonably expect.

Hats off to American Honda Motors for first class service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One other S2000 owner on this board, Desmond, missed a downshift and overrevved. AHM covered the repair of his damaged valves also, as a courtesy repair rather than as a "warranted" failure. Later, when Desmond had differential damage, they didn't cover the differential. Desmond may or may not have been racing his car, as AHM found time slips in the car when they inspected it for the differential repair.

You are right that I would not include either your problem or Desmond's in this thread. The two criteria I set up were "tap tap tap" leading to "short block replacement." You had "over-rev" leading to "valve repairs".

I think you were wise to tell AHM exactly what happened. They know these engines inside out anyway. I'm sure as soon as Honda-tech heard what parts were damaged, they had a pretty good idea that someone had missed a downshift.

I hope they know that the #4 cylinder problem can occur without low oil. Woodwork?

Barry...

[Edited by Barry WY Silver/Black '01 on 04-04-2001 at 08:59 PM]

Barry in Wyoming

We are now up to 12 short block replacements. I've just updated the top post in this thread.

legendr34 is the latest. He has a my2001.

Here's the thread: http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...5182#post145182

Barry

Barry in Wyoming

Rowland, thank you It is a pleasure.

I added 2/3 quart of motor oil today for the first time--and learned a lesson too.

I ran my car hard yesterday, driving from Sheridan to Burgess Junction in the Big Horns. It is full of switchbacks, poorly designed curves, etc. WOW, I ran much of the time in second, at 45-60 mph (7,500 to 9,000 rpms).

Oh yes. I was rewarded with a stretch at the top of 10 miles of flat, pretty straight highway with no traffic because it is still closed to through traffic from snow drifts.

Open road. No cars. No one else. Absolutely no one. We (the S and I) had FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I got back to town I topped off the gas tank with 6 gallons and checked the oil. At the gas station it looked full, but when I checked it again this morning, it was down 3 x's on one side of the stick. I added 2/3 quart of Walmart SJ 10W-30 mineral oil.

I expected it to burn oil, but I didn't expect it to show full at the gas station (with the oil thin from the engine being at operating temp) and then to reveal the truth today.

I know there are other threads about this, but this has to be the worst designed, least reliable dipstick I've ever seen.

My car has 2,060 miles on it, and 1,390 on this engine.

Does anyone have more info about Stealthy?

Barry