S2000 STR prep resource
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
From: Pewaukee, WI
If the ECU rule goes through and everyone has about the same amount of power potential then I'm just left with the heaviest car. That's all I was saying. I already have FlashPro now. I just think it would be more fair if everyone could tune the cars properly.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 480
Likes: 3
3.5% Total car weight. That's what we're talking about here. In the noise? Maybe, maybe not.
I find all this talk about excluding the CR or ballasting it to be ridiculous.... especially in STR. In Stock, I can see an argument for exclusion based on production numbers and the many advantages it has over a regular S2000 but in STR, you can eliminate all of the advantages besides a bit of weight. There is just no way any of this talk about specifically treating one model of a specific car with a special rule set is going to come to fruition. Auto-x classing and rules has to be generic enough to not be short sighted and to allow for some rules stability while accepting new models.
For fun, take a look at ST where the weight differences between the 89 Japanese cars and the 90-91 cars is as much as 4.5% of total weight and notice that there are many national races where the heavier car has won when raced against a stout field including past national champions. For power, Tim Smith's ST civic is probably one of the least powerful cars in the class by as much as 15hp on some guys, that's a 12.5% deficiency, and his car has taken 2 National Championships and continues to win.
I just think people are making too much out of the differences in these S2000s. You only get 3 runs a day. Everybody is nervous. To think that your driving is so good that you got 97% out of the car is foolish... or if it that good, you are winning so you don't care that your car has less power or weighs more.
For an example of what I'm talking about: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3.html
I find all this talk about excluding the CR or ballasting it to be ridiculous.... especially in STR. In Stock, I can see an argument for exclusion based on production numbers and the many advantages it has over a regular S2000 but in STR, you can eliminate all of the advantages besides a bit of weight. There is just no way any of this talk about specifically treating one model of a specific car with a special rule set is going to come to fruition. Auto-x classing and rules has to be generic enough to not be short sighted and to allow for some rules stability while accepting new models.
For fun, take a look at ST where the weight differences between the 89 Japanese cars and the 90-91 cars is as much as 4.5% of total weight and notice that there are many national races where the heavier car has won when raced against a stout field including past national champions. For power, Tim Smith's ST civic is probably one of the least powerful cars in the class by as much as 15hp on some guys, that's a 12.5% deficiency, and his car has taken 2 National Championships and continues to win.
I just think people are making too much out of the differences in these S2000s. You only get 3 runs a day. Everybody is nervous. To think that your driving is so good that you got 97% out of the car is foolish... or if it that good, you are winning so you don't care that your car has less power or weighs more.
For an example of what I'm talking about: http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets3.html
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,014
Likes: 1
From: Seattle, WA
If I were you guys, I'd leave any suggestion of ballast alone. Mounting ballast safely requires drilling holes through the floorpan. People are going to have a fit (and rightfully so, in my opinion) if you tell them they have to drill holes through the floor of their street cars.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,014
Likes: 1
From: Seattle, WA
By the way, someone might want to think about starting a separate thread about parity, as every page of posts here arguing about whether the CR's an overdog decreases the signal-to-noise ratio for people looking for setup advice.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 2
You can accuse me of whatever you want online, but i know what my intentions are. We will see each other soon enough. If someone wins in a CR, it is because he or she is a good driver, nothing else. That is all I'm saying. Not trying to make enemies here, but i will not stand for anyone discounting someone's victory because of a minor difference in tthier cars. As for the rest James, I meant what I said.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 6
From: Near Philadelphia
If I were you guys, I'd leave any suggestion of ballast alone. Mounting ballast safely requires drilling holes through the floorpan. People are going to have a fit (and rightfully so, in my opinion) if you tell them they have to drill holes through the floor of their street cars.
Maybe I'll write a letter at least proposing that you have to have A/C and radio for STR? That would at least drop the CR's advantage to definitely driver noise level. How hard is it to install A/C on a delete CR?
It would be nice to get a mod to move all this discussion to another thread.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 515
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Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,785
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From: Azusa