A few thoughts-

The AP1 is at a distinct power/gearing disadvantage to the AP2. Even when I had a great RT and launch, Thorne's car was still pulling on our AP1. In a straight line, there's no comparo.

That being said, I don't think I could've run the times that Robert and James ran at the RM Pro. I had a few pretty solid runs, and didn't ever feel like I could get closer than about 0.2 to 0.3 per side slower. I was really close with James all the way through, but Robert had some flying runs.

CR vs. AP2 vs. AP1: The CR is *the* car to have. This isn't news to anyone, although it might be a sore point for some people. The CR is lighter, better balanced thanks to no AC or softtop, and more powerful. That's a tough combo to beat.

100 lbs, in my opinion, is a pretty significant handicap when you're talking about two otherwise identical cars. Easier to quantify in a track environment, but in my experience it equates to 0.2 to 0.5 seconds on a 60-sec course. This may be "driver margin" for some, but if you want to win then you want to stack the odds as far in your favor as possible.

I haven't driven Thorne's car since we installed the OS-Giken diff, but I sure do want to. It looks like it puts power down amazingly well, and the results sure seem good too (not to take anything away from him as a driver, he can PEDAL.)

As far as equalizing the class... I dunno what to tell you. It's still such a young, new class that there might be another contender that hasn't even been anticipated or tried yet. My thoughts are that an MR-Spyder or M-Coupe/Roadster could be very competitive, but haven't ever really been aggressively prepped and campaigned yet. At the RM Pro, an M-Coupe probably could have won the class.

Just a few thoughts... I'll be back to lurking!

-Chris

 

I had this experience with my CR about a year ago. There are various overlooked items ... besides the expense of the complete ac and radio system, there are different harnesses, drilling, fuses, mounting brackets, weird bolts, belts, wire tapping/splicing and many other little dealer only items that must be purchased. For the short time I had my car on the market, one buyer did the research to install the ac and radio (since my CR delete was the only white CR on the market at the time). In the end, it wasn't worth it. The total cost was over anywhere from 3-5k with labor including some used parts. My Honda certified mechanic also confirmed this. According to him, its a huge can of worms and much easier to wait for an ac/radio model CR to pop up for sale. Its much easier to take off than to put on.

I would write letters and vote "no" on a "delete" model ban since I own a delete CR. I bought it this way and would want to run it this way. If I couldn't run it in STR, I guess it would be back to B-Stock where there seems to be better S2000 sportsmanship. Looks like its every S2k owner for himself at this point?


I'm with Matt on this one, the overall weight is within a small % and much closer than other proven classes. Looking back at my posts, I offered whatever I could come up with to make a fair proposal, now you guys want to ban my model CR. Can't please anyone I guess Oh well, see you guys at Nats.

-Marc

 

Marc, we're discussing possibilities to please everyone. This has nothing to do with sportsmanship. Are we not allowed to discuss ways go make it more fair? Ideally they would have said in the first place that your model is not allowed. But they didn't, and installing ac or ballasting doesn't sound easy, therefore I'm fine with things remaining as they are and you getting to keep your small advantage.

 

These words are EXACTLY why I have been on everyone's case. I feel sorry for people when then win and have to hear words like this.

Again, what advantages this time? You know what my setup will be for Nationals. I have explained away false accusations multiple times in this thread. What more?

Again, when I bought the CR, most had given up on the S2000 and especially the AP2. You guys joked and commented how it was such a waste to buy a CR. Most off the threads on here about CRs were all about making fun of them. Now they need to be banned? The CR isn't the only "special" factory produced model that is classed in SOLO or even in STR.

Point is, Its pretty sad to see so many statements that a car is the reason someone is winning. Man up and drive. To some, your arguments with me have been answered by me already, search my recent posts in this thread. That is all from me, PM if you want to continue.

-Marc

 

I think it would be great if SCCA had some real spec classes (cheap, moderate, expensive) in solo where the driver testosterone could flow freely and not get hung up on technicalities!

I agree, another thread is needed for STR rules discussion, I started one at the link below. Back to the regularly scheduled discussion...

STR Rules Discussion Thread

 

You know, if it does become a spec class, then so be it. The reality of it ever becoming a spec class is slim to none. I'm just going to say this... If you want to argue that my winning a class was because I had the right car for the class, and I had a small advantage, then so be it. Step up to the plate, get the right car for the class, then come and challenge me, or else lets keep it zipped. At the end of the day, I prep my car to the max, abide by the rules, and drive my ass off.

Marc said autocross is about the driver, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. My CR has been what I thought was fully prepped last year for B-Stock, but yet I was 13th at Nationals. Having spoken to Marc, we both realized that I needed to stop making it a car setup issue, and instead just focus on driving. I took that advice, and I spent the majority of the time just getting ton of seat time, doing a couple of solo pro driving schools, and just plain focus on the areas where my driving was weak. This year, the results so far have spoken for themselves, not only just in class, but overall in PAX.

I got my ass handed to me in Toledo this year by the Kozlaks, and I could have argued that the S2000 is torqueless and that the Kozlaks had a small advantage, but you know what? This is the second tour this year that I lost, and I was happy at the end of the day that I drove to my full potential with what I had. I congratulated the Kozlaks and kept it moving. You win some, and you lose some. Lets not forget about the car that won STR last year at Nats. It wasn't an S2000 CR.

final note, this is why I love B-stock so much. It is a driver's class....

My .02 cents

- Jadrice

 

I have been thinking about slip angles in terms of balancing the car for lateral/transitional grip and stability. I'm going to try using camber to add cornering speed at the slight sacrifice of power application then lean on the diff to help fix the compromise.

I just realigned to -2.6F/-2.4*R and will be trying it this weekend at a divisional.

 

I've done two races in my car. The first event the car was turned from a BS car to an STR car over the span of two evenings a day prior to the event. I didn't have time to realign the car after installing the springs and lowering the perches from stock height. I used toe plates to get the toe to a sane setting. Consequently, I was running -2.2 up front and -3.1 in the back. I thought the car felt fantastic.

For the second race, I got the car aligned. I went with -2.7 up front and -2.4 in the back.

I couldn't feel a difference in the car. :|

Now for the third race, I've changed springs, front sway bar and lowered the car substantially. I don't know what my alignment is now but you can bet that it's more than -2.7 and -2.4. God knows what the toe did. I probably have toe in in the front, which I may fix day after the first day of the SWdiv (see you there stimpy?) and more toe in in the back as well. It's raining here and I plan to get on the road from New Orleans after work tomorrow so I won't have time to get out the toe plates...

 

Matt,
Hopefully you took the toe plates with you. The result of lowering is usually toe out on both front and rear. This is driven by the tie rods up front if below horizontal when you start lowering. Same goes for the rear toe control arms if they are below horizontal. You may have a very quick turning car on the front and the back probably resulting in a loose back end. Could be a hand full to drive, but who knows you may have discovered something you really like.

The inside of your front tires may be wiped out real quick.

Good Luck.

 

Hey I just want to check I'm not crazy - a friend is telling me he thinks it's legal in STR to take the coolant connections off the throttle body so it's not heating the intake air. He's frequently wrong about these things so I tried to find anything like that in the rule book and didn't see it being allowed. Did I miss it, or is it actually not allowed?