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Old Jun 25, 2010 | 12:28 PM
  #2131  
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Originally Posted by imstimpy,Jun 25 2010, 04:15 PM




It sounds like number 14 is the source of "shock knock" for those of us reusing stock mounts? It is caused by insufficient bushing compression that allows the sleeve to knock against the washers surrounding the bushing.
Either increase the shock nut torque, thread the shock shaft deeper, or simply remove number 14.

Does that sound all right?
My sleeve is long enough that the washers are always snug against the sleeve with the top nuts tight. This leaves only the bushing to flex but the sleeve is never moving relative to the washers.
Old Jun 25, 2010 | 12:50 PM
  #2132  
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Originally Posted by Random1,Jun 25 2010, 06:42 AM
None of us are saying it can't happen, but the risk of it happening is very low. The conditions and timing of what you describe (what is needed) are not likely to happen.

I have not seen an inside front wheel come off the ground on an S2000 STR car, but most of my exposure is local events on nice smooth pavement. The San Diego Tour was the only large non-local event I have observed.

The Doug Rowse/Brian Peters DSP BMW is the only car I have seen that has inside front wheel lift at local events.

Wheel lift is a trait that varies by chassis. A Subaru or Evo will pick up a rear under hard cornering while a BMW will pick up a front. Typically, wheel lift is a lack of droop travel, not an excessive amount of it.

Full droop is nearly impossible because of any combination of the following:
  • Shock damping
  • Anit-roll bar
  • Bushing pre-load
  • Shock droop travel
  • Spring lengths
In my past experience, a BMW will pick up a wheel with a stiff front bar and insufficient rear spring. A Subaru will pick up a wheel with insufficient front spring and a stiff rear bar. For both, the tricks to make them fast cause their quirky wheel lift. I removed my rear bar to limit rear wheel lift on the S2000, but I have yet to drive the car with real suspension.
Old Jun 25, 2010 | 01:55 PM
  #2133  
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Originally Posted by imstimpy,Jun 25 2010, 01:15 PM




It sounds like number 14 is the source of "shock knock" for those of us reusing stock mounts? It is caused by insufficient bushing compression that allows the sleeve to knock against the washers surrounding the bushing.
Either increase the shock nut torque, thread the shock shaft deeper, or simply remove number 14.

Does that sound all right?
In theory.

I removed the sleeves from the rear as a test and still had the sound. My threads are not a limiting factor, and the nut has been tightened down as much as possible.

It sure sounds like shock knock, but not sure what's going on. I just got my stock top hats and bushings back and plan to install the stock rear shocks as a test to see what happens.

It's either the Penske installation or something to do with lowering.
Old Jun 25, 2010 | 03:47 PM
  #2134  
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Originally Posted by Random1,Jun 25 2010, 01:55 PM
In theory.

I removed the sleeves from the rear as a test and still had the sound. My threads are not a limiting factor, and the nut has been tightened down as much as possible.

It sure sounds like shock knock, but not sure what's going on. I just got my stock top hats and bushings back and plan to install the stock rear shocks as a test to see what happens.

It's either the Penske installation or something to do with lowering.
I'm fighting some rear knocking as well. I'm going to up my nitrogen canister pressure from ~125psi. Whenever this sound showed up on the ASTs it was nitrogen. Never correlated it to a specific pressure, unfortunately.

[QUOTE=Moton]
Dampers with 22 mm outside diameter piston rod (struts)
Old Jun 25, 2010 | 05:21 PM
  #2135  
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Does the noise go away at anytime? When it's cold or when the shock is hot.

Old Jun 25, 2010 | 06:52 PM
  #2136  
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The noise does appear to be less after warm up. Jim Reyenga also mentioned this to me for his case.

The event I did last weekend was during 95-105 F day and I don't recall hearing it at all when driving off the lot and slowly down a gravel road.

I usually hear the noise between 1 - 25 MPH when going over small bumps like in my gravel drive way.
Old Jun 25, 2010 | 07:27 PM
  #2137  
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Originally Posted by imstimpy,Jun 25 2010, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by Moton
Dampers with 22 mm outside diameter piston rod (struts) = 12 bar or 185 psi
Dampers with 14 mm outside diameter piston rod = 18 bar or 275 psi
Once I figure out the "piston rod" size, I'll set my pressures accordingly.
Moton Clubsports have 22mm shafts for the S2000.
Old Jun 28, 2010 | 08:42 AM
  #2138  
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Originally Posted by imstimpy,Jun 19 2010, 03:04 PM
This will be my setup for the first event:
Moton Clubsports
anti-roll bars F/R: stock/none
ride-height F/R: 34cm/34.5cm (13.39"/13.58")
springs F/R: 700#/550#, 7"x2.5" + helpers
toe F/R: 0"/3/16"
camber F/R: -1.8*/-2*


Two drivers, 11 runs with 5 min between runs, both drivers in the car for all but two runs, unsealed asphalt, ambient temp of 95*F:

You can see some slight beveling on the outer rib (the one with the flames on it). It is only present on the front tires. Pressures started at 32psi F/R and we let them creep to 35psi F/R. We attempted to spray with ice water twice and both efforts resulted in an increase of sliding, power oversteer, corner understeer, and braking distances.

The car drove exceptionally well for a first setup attempt. It exhibited mild understeer with controllable throttle steer. Lift rotation was stable and oversteer was easy to catch (or induce). VTEC did not unsettle the car nor did lifting in 1st mid-corner for a shift to 2nd. I encountered fuel starvation in three places following big left-handers while my co-driver did not encounter starvation. My steering was more abrupt and my lines kinked. Starvation happened at an indicated 1/3 tank.

Results can be found here.. My car is STR 79/192 and driven 2nd heat, Jason Minehart is XSTR 86 and drove 1st heat, and Dan Pedroza is DSTR 86 and drove 3rd heat. Dan drove Jason's car for the first time after Dan's competition CS runs. Jason is still on his original Toyos but believes they are falling off.

[EDIT] I forgot to mention I'm now missing three or four fender liner clips.
Old Jun 28, 2010 | 10:11 AM
  #2139  
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More pressure. Should be up near 40lbs - especially with that little camber and roll stiffness up front.

You need heat. Don't spray them unless they go over 130-140deg.

If there are more than 50runs on Jason's tires then he's probably losing about a full second off fresh Toyos.
Old Jun 28, 2010 | 12:16 PM
  #2140  
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Originally Posted by TheNick,Jun 28 2010, 10:11 AM
If there are more than 50runs on Jason's tires then he's probably losing about a full second off fresh Toyos.
I know for a fact he has more than 50 runs on those tires. Dan is talking about possibly co-driving with him at Nationals instead of running the MS-R in CS, should be interesting

Rob and Jon were definitely not far off for the first shakedown runs of the car though.

The DP car is still waiting on an engine, and it's getting close to divisional time, looks like I will have to get wheels/tires for the S2k sooner than I expected...



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