NJDrive:

Sorry, should have clarified, excluding the NC Miata, but including the NA and NB Miatas. I don't think most of know where the impetus for STR came from, but it was actually from a lot of NB owners that didn't have a place to play in ST* and for NA 1.8 owners that wanted to use a real diff in their car. And then of course there were lots of S2k owners that wanted to play too, but putting the NC in STR I think will eventually drive away NA/NB and S2k owners that at the beginning were enthusiastic, once it becomes clear that the NC is the favored car.

just my 2 cents.

James Yom

 

Has anyone looked at fitting something like a MegaSquirt in the ECU case? Someone had mentioned in another thread that all S2000 ECU cases were the same, so that means there's a healthy market out there for any 00-05 cars.

Excuse me if this is an ignorant question, I've never even seen a MegaSquirt.

 

^^ I asked that question at one point and Nick shot it down. I cannot remember why tho... I'll see if I can find it.

Edit:
Here it is... (on page 5... ugh.. I wish there was a search this thread feature)
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...&#entry16912338

-Dave

 

I would just like to 2nd everything that James has said here. I know I'm a BS guy, but I think it's relevant to add in my 2 cents for the STR crowd:

There really are very little, if any conventional SCCA style autox's that would favor the AP1's power band and gearing - there are only courses (the overall faster, higher speed ones) that could level the playing field.

The mid-range acceleration (a little below vtec and just getting in to it) of an AP2 is significantly greater than an AP1 because of the powerband and gearing. Anytime an AP1 (especially on a stock tune with the horrific power/torque dip, as is my case in BS) is caught in the 4500-5500 rpm range in 2nd gear coming out of a lower speed corner, I am giving away many tenths to an AP2. The problem is that at that range, downshifting to 1st is typically not much faster, if not faster at all because of the time you spend downshifting, and then following upshift, not to mention only being in 1st for say a second or so, assuming you could even put the power down in a straight line. My testing locally has proved this. (I'm not saying all the time, just MOST of the time) Better to leave it in 2nd, accept the bog, and focus on driving - getting a clean exit and setting yourself up for the next element. It's like driving a 2800lb miata below vtec.

I did not downshift on the west course at Nats, as it would have fit in to the exact situation I just described. The west course was just about perfect for the AP2's, as I think many of the top guys here in BS and STR would agree.

The east course was the only place I would have/should have downshifted in my AP1, in the far hairpin before the long straight. I kept telling myself I could carry more speed through there, but I was wrong. It was perfect for a downshift to 1st- a very low speed corner with a straight drag-race exit. A tighter dig, staying on the clean line, with a 1st gear rocket out of the corner would have been faster on the order of about half a second there. Why I could not get my head out of my ass, who knows. I definitely had some nerves on day 2, that could be why...like Dave said, the driver is a big factor in performance

So anyway, I love what you guys are doing with the AP1 and AP2's in STR. I think the tire/weight ratio of the miata is going to be difficult to overcome, but this is racing and I hope you guys can claw away at those guys and bring the championship back to Honda next year.

 

This^^^

I just compared a bunch of dyno numbers and did a thrust chart between the ap1/2 and mx5 5spd and 6spd

the mx5-6spd is faster than a ap2, uses the same tire, and weighs less. So it can out accelerate, turn, and brake the best s2000

do the math.

 

Bob, I'm curious, after seeing your video (downshifting like a madman, but definitely warranted because of the very low speed digs you were facing) where did you downshift at Nationals? Specifically, did you downshift on the west course and find it of any value?

Nick

 

From watching these cars all season battle it out at the tours and Pros, this is simply not true.

The MX-5 has better power delivery without upsetting the stability/traction as much as the S2000. Acceleration clearly favors the S2000. Overall grip favors the MX-5.

For STR, the S2000 is going to take more time to develop and tame, just like it did in AS/BS. This is one reason I like the AP1 to start with. It has less power, tq, broader powerband and slightly less weight. Im confident there will be a computer fix. Given the current available tires, the AP1 shouldn't overpower the tires as much as the AP2. For me, the proper balance is everything. I would rather have less power with grip than more power without it.

Edit ... as for a computer fix, maybe its time for everyone to send letters to the most likely ECU tuners. With enough demand, someone will figure it out.
-Marc

 

"Rob" please.

Yes it was worth it. Part of the trick is to down shift while braking with rev matching and not slowing too much. That way you only take the hit on the up shift.

Down shifts to first were done for the first and second turn arounds, the left at the top right, and the turn around at the top left (end of back end section).

2010 Nationals West Course - 62.379 sec

On the east course I struggled in general to put all the parts together. I needed many more runs to perfect that course. There I down shifted into the turn prior to the slalom which headed back, the "pivot" in the top right, and after the wiggle prior to the long turn into the finish.

 

This makes much more sense to me. mLeach, mind sharing more detail on those calculations and/or charts?

 

I completely agree. An s2000 (AP2) has considerably more power than an MX5. However, if I remember correctly, ole Motonishi destroyed all the s2000’s 60/ft times at the Pro finale. Can’t look right now because it seems like the results server is down… that’s just what I recall anyway.

** EDIT** Also, if you look at power:weight on the two cars.... what are the MX5's getting for WHP with all the bolt-ons and a tune? I'm going to "guess" 140-150. The s2000's average weight is probably around 2650. I think I've seen quite a few with Flashpro getting upwards of 220whp.

So... Mx5 = 0.065 s2000 = 0.083